How to Save Money When Buying Low Cost Function Generator

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e0ne199

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recommended function generator for hobbyist

« on: August 29, , 08:30:40 pm » hello everyone, i am currently looking for signal generator that i will use to generate signals for my electronic projects...after reading some threads this forum i see that some people here prefer using FY / FY because it is cheaper that most of signal generators discussed here although its quality is still questionable...for everyone who has used that, is that signal generator really lives up to its spec? i just want to buy an affordable signal generator which can be used on 90% of my project and actually meets its actual spec...your opinions are appreciated, thx 

nctnico

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #1 on: August 29, , 08:34:22 pm » For the money you can't go wrong. If it turns out you need more features and end up buying a more expensive generator at some point in the future then the Feeltech generator is still useful to have around. There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

tautech

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #2 on: August 29, , 08:40:43 pm »

hello everyone, i am currently looking for signal generator that i will use to generate signals for my electronic projects...after reading some threads this forum i see that some people here prefer using FY / FY because it is cheaper that most of signal generators discussed here although its quality is still questionable...for everyone who has used that, is that signal generator really lives up to its spec? i just want to buy an affordable signal generator which can be used on 90% of my project and actually meets its actual spec...your opinions are appreciated, thx 

If you want Bode plot plug and play with your X-E get one of the Siglent AWG's or study this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdsx-e-and-sdsx-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/ Avid Rabid Hobbyist.

joseph nicholas

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #3 on: August 29, , 08:52:43 pm » There is a newer model of this but it has a different name.  There is a thread going on this newer model here and a few reviews on youtube.  Check it out. 

You haven't told us much about yourself and what your current need is for this function gen.

Old Printer

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #4 on: August 29, , 09:53:32 pm » And affordable means different things to different people, putting an actual dollar figure on your budget range would help.

MarkF

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #5 on: August 29, , 10:03:50 pm » The following users thanked this post: Mechatrommer

e0ne199

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #6 on: August 30, , 01:38:19 am »

And affordable means different things to different people, putting an actual dollar figure on your budget range would help.

what i meant about affordable is a signal generator that meets its specification especially when generating square wave and sine wave and still cheap enough to buy... btw from what i see on some threads that discuss about feeltech signal generator, looks like it cannot generate any good signal when it works on its maximum performance when generating, for example, square wave... i don't know about siglent or rigol, but are they just on the same level as feeltech?? because both of them are manufactured in china too

tautech

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #7 on: August 30, , 01:43:13 am » Study datasheets and come back and ask better informed questions.
Search for AWG models here in the forum. Avid Rabid Hobbyist.

Brumby

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #8 on: August 30, , 02:41:56 am »

... because both of them are manufactured in china too

This is, perhaps, the greatest face-palm comment I've come across for some time.

China can produce some exemplary equipment.  China can also produce crap.  This is just like any other country.

Except, maybe, Germany. Why Clippy?  --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Dtmpe9qaQ

e0ne199

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #9 on: August 30, , 06:16:16 am »

Study datasheets and come back and ask better informed questions.
Search for AWG models here in the forum.

this is exactly what i am trying to ask... does siglent, for example, perform as what is written on its datasheet in real world situation?? it is hard to find someone who reviews awg's performance (except maybe feeltech) on youtube or this forum... feeltech awg also has tempting spec for its price point but in real life its performance is still disappointing...i just want to make sure that i don't buy the wrong awg 
i am not trying to look down on chinese product but for me it is important to know about it anyway « Last Edit: August 30, , 06:20:43 am by e0ne199 »

Vaiti

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #10 on: August 30, , 06:59:40 am » Just get the feeltech, it will suit a hobbyist needs. tau will try to sell the siglent to you because he is a siglent dealer

tautech

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #11 on: August 30, , 07:57:58 am »

tau will try to sell the siglent to you because he is a siglent dealer

Not only, a hobbyist like many here too !

Study datasheets and come back and ask better informed questions.
Search for AWG models here in the forum.

this is exactly what i am trying to ask... does siglent, for example, perform as what is written on its datasheet in real world situation??

100% or better.

Quote

it is hard to find someone who reviews awg's performance (except maybe feeltech) on youtube or this forum...

Look at forum threads about SDGX, SDGX and SDGX for YT videos.

The important bits about sig gens, FG's and AWG's are these specs:
Waveform type max frequency
Bits, 14 or 16
Max amplitude and current
2 equal channels
Combine channels timing (both same phase)
Phase control
Output protection
DC source
External clock input
External trigger input

There are many more specs that some will consider more important but based on personal experience those are what matter to me. I have a SDGX that fits my needs well however I could have anything on my bench from the Siglent range, even the $6k fully optioned 500 MHz SDGX but that would be a waste. 

Avid Rabid Hobbyist.

Dubbie

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #12 on: August 30, , 08:41:58 am » I have a Siglent AWG and have never had any trouble with it. It always behaves exactly as I would expect given the specs. If it was stolen tomorrow, I wouldn’t hesitate to replace it with another.

bitwelder

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #13 on: August 30, , 09:28:42 am »

i just want to buy an affordable signal generator which can be used on 90% of my project

...which are...? 
If you can detail a bit e.g. about what frequencies you'd need to cover
or whether you need precision or stability from the siggen, you'd might have more precise answers

nctnico

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #14 on: August 30, , 09:29:38 am »

And affordable means different things to different people, putting an actual dollar figure on your budget range would help.

what i meant about affordable is a signal generator that meets its specification especially when generating square wave and sine wave and still cheap enough to buy... btw from what i see on some threads that discuss about feeltech signal generator, looks like it cannot generate any good signal when it works on its maximum performance when generating, for example, square wave... i don't know about siglent or rigol, but are they just on the same level as feeltech?? because both of them are manufactured in china too

Every function generator has a limited bandwidth and the specified bandwidth only applies to sine waves. Other waveforms have higher frequency content (google fourier analysis) and at some point there isn't enough bandwidth to create a square wave. There is no difference between the Feeltech and other frequency generators. In the past some manufacturers limited the upper frequency of their generators for non-sine waveforms to 10% of the bandwidth but nowadays most leave it up to the user to decide whether a waveform (with attenuated / missing higher harmonics) is acceptable or not.

And take note Tautech is a Siglent dealer; he tries to upsell you Siglent products. « Last Edit: August 30, , 10:47:08 am by nctnico » There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

e0ne199

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #15 on: August 30, , 11:13:46 am »

i just want to buy an affordable signal generator which can be used on 90% of my project

...which are...? 
If you can detail a bit e.g. about what frequencies you'd need to cover
or whether you need precision or stability from the siggen, you'd might have more precise answers

actually i want high precision and of course stability on generated signal for my project especially when i want to use square wave signal on it..according to the information i get from this forum about feeltech, it cannot generate stable signal even when it is not on its maximum performance...i just want to know about other signal generator (especially rigol and siglent) if they behave the same way as feeltech one...that is all i want to know about anyway 

BillB

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #16 on: August 30, , 11:24:45 am » Let's see what we have so far:

• Cost: Affordable
• Waveform type max frequency: square and sine wave
• Bits, 14 or 16: High Precision
• Max amplitude and current: ?
• 2 equal channels: ?
• Combine channels timing (both same phase): ?
• Phase control: stability
• Output protection: ?
• DC source: ?
• External clock input: ?
• External trigger input: ?

A few more answers and I think we'll have it nailed down.    « Last Edit: August 30, , 11:32:56 am by BillB »

e0ne199

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #17 on: August 30, , 11:25:33 am »

And affordable means different things to different people, putting an actual dollar figure on your budget range would help.

what i meant about affordable is a signal generator that meets its specification especially when generating square wave and sine wave and still cheap enough to buy... btw from what i see on some threads that discuss about feeltech signal generator, looks like it cannot generate any good signal when it works on its maximum performance when generating, for example, square wave... i don't know about siglent or rigol, but are they just on the same level as feeltech?? because both of them are manufactured in china too

Every function generator has a limited bandwidth and the specified bandwidth only applies to sine waves. Other waveforms have higher frequency content (google fourier analysis) and at some point there isn't enough bandwidth to create a square wave. There is no difference between the Feeltech and other frequency generators. In the past some manufacturers limited the upper frequency of their generators for non-sine waveforms to 10% of the bandwidth but nowadays most leave it up to the user to decide whether a waveform (with attenuated / missing higher harmonics) is acceptable or not.

And take note Tautech is a Siglent dealer; he tries to upsell you Siglent products.

wow is that true? if that is true then feeltech is really unbeatable in its price range...i really have to seriously consider adding it into my purchase list because after checking its price and spec for SDGX and compare it with FY, looks like FY is really superior than SDGX in terms of max frequency (60 MHz vs 30 MHz) 

e0ne199

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #18 on: August 30, , 11:32:07 am »

Let's see what we've  so far:

• Cost: Affordable
• Waveform type max frequency: square wave
• Bits, 14 or 16: High Precision
• Max amplitude and current: ?
• 2 equal channels: ?
• Combine channels timing (both same phase): ?
• Phase control: ?
• Output protection: ?
• DC source: ?
• External clock input: ?
• External trigger input: ?

A few more answers and I think we'll have it nailed down.   

thx for listing the spec i need to have

• Cost: Affordable
• Waveform type max frequency: square wave
• Bits, 14 or 16: 14 bits, high precision
• Max amplitude and current: ? i don't know about current but max voltage should be 20Vp-p
• 2 equal channels: ?2-channel is a must
• Combine channels timing (both same phase): ?need anything related with phase
• Phase control: ?i absolutely need this, and it must be stable
• Output protection: ?if it is still affordable then i will need it
• DC source: ?
• External clock input: ?
• External trigger input: ?

i don't know the rest of them since i am new to signal generator 

BillB

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #19 on: August 30, , 11:40:07 am »

i don't know the rest of them since i am new to signal generator 

Given this, nctnico gave you the answer in the first response.  Buy the feeltech, learn about it, and if/when you need more then you can upgrade later.  You can keep the feeltech or even sell it at that point.  Don't overbuy on an AWG I'd argue it's the least used piece of equipment on the home workbench, and your money is better spent upgrading meters and scopes.

p.s.  I've got a couple of Siglents (X,X) and they work fine for me.  When you get to the point of wanting to upgrade, these are good choices to consider.  « Last Edit: August 30, , 11:44:20 am by BillB »

BravoV

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #20 on: August 30, , 11:41:24 am » Missing the most important specification ... define "affordable" in number, otherwise this discussion is pointless.

1 ? 10 ? 100 ? ?

Dwaine

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #21 on: August 31, , 06:22:47 am » I have the feeltech and the Siglent SDGX generators.   I would save up the money and get a Siglent and be done with it.  Since getting the Siglent SDGX, the feeltech has never been turned on again.    For me, it's third most used device on my bench...  I mostly do restores of old tube radio equipment and amps.

The looks great though....

Dwaine

nctnico

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #22 on: August 31, , 09:17:48 am » I think the Feeltech / Feelelec model bridges the last gap by having a graphical user interface so you can see what the waveform looks like. I think it can compete with the lower end devices from Rigol and Siglent for general purpose use. An SDGX series takes you into the >500 euro range. « Last Edit: August 31, , 10:58:17 am by nctnico » There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

MikeLud

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #23 on: August 31, , 12:59:27 pm » Below is a video that shows a comparison of JDS, FY, and SDGX generating 15mhz square wave.

https://youtu.be/oOxLOsfoj30 « Last Edit: August 31, , 02:48:23 pm by MikeLud » The following users thanked this post: Mechatrommer

fourfathom

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Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist

« Reply #24 on: August 31, , 02:42:20 pm »

Below is a video that shows a comparison of JDS, FY, and SDGX generating 10mhz square wave.

https://youtu.be/oOxLOsfoj30

In the video, is there a termination on that cable?  I don't think that Hantek scope has a 50-Ohm input option.  We sure are seeing horrible reflections. We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.

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ultrarunner

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Inexpensive signal generator?

« on: October 13, , 01:24:05 pm » Hi;
Now that I have the Siglent SDSX-E oscilloscope, I'm ready to start building projects and experimenting.
Well, almost...
I don't own a signal generator.
I do own a Raspberry Pi 3 b+, and know that I can use it to generate square waves up to about 250Mhz, but what I really want is sine, triangular, and square wave capability.
I have been doing some reading on Arbitrary Waveform Generators (AWG), but not sure I really need anything more than a dual-channel (I want to experiment with signal mixing and harmonics) signal generator.

I originally thought I could use my RigExpert AA-170 antenna analyzer as a signal generator from 100Khz up to 170Mhz, but when I put it on the scope, I realized that it will only generate square waves up to 30Mhz, then it switches to an odd-order sub-harmonic to generate higher frequencies. This was a bit of a mystery as I adjusted the frequency to 30Mhz, then went one step above, and saw the output jump down to 10Mhz. Then I re-read the manual and understood that it was doing what it is supposed to do.

For signals in the audio range, I can use my Pi with the Audio Injector sound card, or my Windows 7 PC with any audio software (I use Reaper) to generate a tone. But I have found that on the PC, the signal is not so stable. It moves about on the scope, and is difficult to trigger properly. Perhaps it would be more stable from the Pi, but I haven't tried that yet.
In any case, I need something capable of generating signals from audio to RF.

I have seen these, ubiquitous ones on Ebay for around $100 for the 60Mhz model, and $50 for the 24Mhz model:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RD-JDS-Series-60MHZ-Digital-Control-Dual-channel-DDS-Signal-Generator-In-USA/?epid=&hash=item363cb:g:deoAAOSwJb5Zt4WT:rk:42:pf:0
These are available in many brands, but are obviously the same inside the case.
I guess one of these would suffice in getting me started, and I certainly don't have a lot of money to spend on this, since I already spent $500 on the scope.

Your suggestions?

Thanks
Ultrarunner

Edit: After I posted this, I began reading some of the user reviews for the Ebay item I linked to. Unfortunately, these units fail miserably at the HF (10-30Mhz) range, and that is where I want to be doing much of my work. So I guess I need to look beyond these apparently falsely advertised products.
Perhaps a vintage HP, Tek, Fluke, Agilent, etc that will take up 1/2 my workbench space, or need to sit on the floor would be a better way to go?
« Last Edit: October 13, , 01:34:53 pm by ultrarunner » The following users thanked this post: drescherjm

tautech

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #1 on: October 13, , 07:22:57 pm » Don't overlook having to save a bit so to get an AWG that can be 'driven' by the X-E for its Bode plot functionality.
There are a few lower cost options from Siglent, the cheapest being their SAG but being 5V USB powered its P-P output levels are a bit miserable. 
Of their standalone units a SDG830 would be a better choice for $332 but it's still only a single channel unit.
The SDGX would be the cheapest 'good' choice and if you want to 'improve' it to the 60 MHz model you'd have 60 MHz sine and square plus the Bode plot functionality in the 4ch X-E.
The best low lost model would be a SDGX but sadly square waves stop at 25 MHz for all the SDGX series models, hacked or not. Avid Rabid Hobbyist.

nctnico

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #2 on: October 13, , 07:28:41 pm » IMHO you can't go wrong with the JDS signal generators. They are cheap for what they do and it will take a long time before you grow out of it. There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

DaJMasta

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #3 on: October 13, , 08:24:00 pm » It's worth searching the forums for the JDS and Feeltech review threads, they're widely discussed around here and really seem to represent some of the best options around $100 or so.

If you want to spend for more, there's the external module and firmware upgrade for your scope that Siglent offers, then there's the entry level Siglent and Rigol function gens which, to varying degrees, can give you what you're looking for.  I think triangle wave is going to be a major sticking point, though, because generating a triangle at 30MHz is not something I see a lot in entry level signal generators.  If that's not a requirement, it shouldn't be hard to find triangle waves to 10 or 15MHz in many models.


While older sig gens can be good... they usually aren't much cheaper than entry level Siglent/Rigol versions, and as you know they're often much larger.  You can sometimes pick up the smaller Agilent ones for around $200, but they're going to go up to like 15MHz, not 30 or 60, for sure.

ultrarunner

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #4 on: October 14, , 03:32:13 am » Thanks guys;
I would love to get the 'add-on' for my scope, so maybe I should just hold off a while longer until I can afford that option.
I really don't understand Bode plots yet, so I need to do some more reading.
I'm not sure why I even mentioned triangular wave. I have no specific need for it, but thought it would be 'nice to have', but certainly wouldn't need it for frequencies above 1Mhz or so.

In the meantime, I am going to rig up my Pi to generate square waves and play around with that for a while.

tautech

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #5 on: October 14, , 04:17:46 am »

Thanks guys;
I would love to get the 'add-on' for my scope, so maybe I should just hold off a while longer until I can afford that option.
I really don't understand Bode plots yet, so I need to do some more reading.

Some simple examples of a Bode plot on a 1-30 KHz band pass filter here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdsx-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg/#msg
And a follow up in reply #550.

Bode plots are also known as Sweep Frequency Response Analysis (SFRA) and good example from rf-loop is on P1 of the thread. Avid Rabid Hobbyist.

Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #6 on: October 14, , 10:11:00 am »

IMHO you can't go wrong with the JDS signal generators. They are cheap for what they do and it will take a long time before you grow out of it.

I second this, they are really great and cheap signal generators to get started with.
The SAG for your scope is really great, but not cheap at all (around 300$).
The choice's yours but I think I would personally go for the JDS for the moment.

tkamiya

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #7 on: October 14, , 03:13:13 pm » To me, requirement for RF generators are so different from Audio frequency generators that they cannot be accommodated in one.  For example, for RF, levels are necessary down to microvolts where as on audio, few volts are not unheard of.  Also, shielding of RF is critical where as AF, it is not.  Wave shape is important on AF, not so with RF.

All of mine are used HP that I picked up from eBay. 

ultrarunner

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #8 on: October 16, , 12:44:45 pm » OK. Clicked tautech's link to the Bode plot. Turns out I've been seeing those plots for a long time, mostly when reading tech sheets on amateur radio gear, but I never knew what they were called.

Now I have a few questions:
What is the 30x trial of the AWG function in the SDSX-E? What good does a trial for a function that requires additional hardware that I need to purchase anyway?
Do I need to purchase a license for Siglent's AWG software (in the scope) in order to use Bode plots (from any AWG)?
There doesn't seem to be much explanation of how the AWG option works in Siglent's docs.

From what I've read about Siglent's AWG option for the SDSX-E, it's only good to 25MHz for sine, and much lower than that for square waves. Sounds like I'd be better off with one of the less expensive models that works to 60MHz; of course those inexpensive models aren't AWG, just signal gens, right? But then, I really don't think I need an AWG for now.

Edit: Watched a YouTube vid of the JDS teardown ( ).
I am worried about that 20min shut-down. Have they fixed it yet? That would certainly be a 'deal breaker', especially if you need to set it up all over after each reboot.

Also noticed no shielding of the enclosure. That could be an issue when working at HF frequencies, and I am trying to listen to (or participate in) a QSO.
« Last Edit: October 16, , 05:14:53 pm by ultrarunner »

tautech

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #9 on: October 16, , 06:15:01 pm »

OK. Clicked tautech's link to the Bode plot. Turns out I've been seeing those plots for a long time, mostly when reading tech sheets on amateur radio gear, but I never knew what they were called.

Now I have a few questions:
What is the 30x trial of the AWG function in the SDSX-E? What good does a trial for a function that requires additional hardware that I need to purchase anyway?
Do I need to purchase a license for Siglent's AWG software (in the scope) in order to use Bode plots (from any AWG)?

The SAG and any Siglent AWG can supply the swept sine wave for Bode plot use without the AWG license. Bode plot is a 'plug and play' feature for the four channel X-E's. The 2nd and 3rd stage filter plots are unique to the X-E Bode plot.
The license is only necessary (after Trial times have expired) to allow the SAG to be used as an independent AWG controlled from the UI within the SDS1*04X-E.

Quote

There doesn't seem to be much explanation of how the AWG option works in Siglent's docs.

This indicates the SAG's capability:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/sag/
External Arbitrary Waveform Generator
Accessory for use with the four channel SDSX-E oscilloscopes only. Output Sine, Square, Ramp, Pulse, Noise, DC and 45 built-in waveforms.The arbitrary waveforms can be accessed and edited by the EasyWave PC software.
Further info on its spec are in the SDS1*04X-E datasheet.

Quote

From what I've read about Siglent's AWG option for the SDSX-E, it's only good to 25MHz for sine, and much lower than that for square waves. Sounds like I'd be better off with one of the less expensive models that works to 60MHz; of course those inexpensive models aren't AWG, just signal gens, right? But then, I really don't think I need an AWG for now.

Better capability and particularly output drive is available in any of the SDG standalone models.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.

nctnico

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #10 on: December 25, , 11:51:24 am » Amplitude. Most of the options you listed can't drive 5V logic.
Also: would you want to drive a relay from your oscilloscope's function generator (if it can provide enough signal to do so)? For that I have a cheap Feeltech generator. Think about power cycle testing. There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

Old Printer

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #11 on: December 25, , 04:40:09 pm » Make sure you read the specs closely. Most units in the lower price ranges that are labeled at 60 MHz will only put out a clean square wave at 25 MHz and the triangle/arbitrary are usually maxed at 10 MHz. The FeelTechs are considered best bang for the buck, but do your homework so as not to be disappointed.

JUNCE LEE

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #12 on: January 11, , 02:36:47 am » The square wave signal of my JDS performed well at 15MHz, the overshoot is small and it does not jitter!

boB

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #13 on: November 06, , 11:48:56 pm »
Old thread I know...

I just bought one of these and I really like it !  Especially for the price of around $100 USD

boB K7IQ

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Re: Inexpensive signal generator?

« Reply #14 on: November 07, , 12:32:54 am » There is also new PSG. PSG is similar to JDS, but PSG has much better front panel and extended frequency range.

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