Cylindrical vs Prismatic Cells | DIY Solar Power Forum

I just saw a short video from Battleborn stating they use cylindrical cells vs prismatic cells. The benefit being they can be fully discharged 100% without affecting life of their batteries. They say prismatic cells can advertise cycles at 80% discharge but in reality is closer to 900 cycles at 100% discharge. They say Battleborns with last - cycles at 100% discharge.

I am always a little skeptical of companies telling me why they’re better so I would like to know this groups thoughts…

. They say Battleborns with last - cycles at 100% discharge

100% discharge may mean down to their BMS cuttoff @20% ??
Probably because they are based in the USA they need to be more honest with their stated battery capacities verses cycles and have their batteries perform to what they are rated.... 100ahr battery needs to supply 100ahr, So they use 120ah of cells. A 100% discharge(100ahrs) down to bms cut off still leaves 20% charge in the batteries for the cycles stated.

"I am always a little skeptical of companies telling me why they’re better "....yes, always read the fine print How much are bus bars going to cost connecting so many small cells? I think there's some costs you're not factoring in building a pack with the small cells. I would probably go with prismatic simply because they're so easy to deal with. I thought prismatic cells advertised like eve 100% discharge for up to or 3,000 cycles and still keep 80% capacity. I don't understand why anybody wouldn't push these cells to their Max.

How much are bus bars going to cost connecting so many small cells? I think there's some costs you're not factoring in building a pack with the small cells. I would probably go with prismatic simply because they're so easy to deal with. I thought prismatic cells advertised like eve 100% discharge for up to or 3,000 cycles and still keep 80% capacity. I don't understand why anybody wouldn't push these cells to their Max.

Eve advertises cycles using 80% of the soc, the prismatic cells last longer (on average double) than the cylindrical ones, the advantages of the cylindrical ones are summarized in the possible installation position that does not create any problem

They are 100% as well, 2.5 volt cut off.

yes, but there are cycles, the point is: respect the ideal temperature conditions, which is definitely impossible when installing in particular situations such as RV vehicles. Therefore: respect the 80% soc and try to make a fixation as close to the famous 300kgf to extend the life of these batteries Most primatic LFP cells are thick electrode design. Thick electrode means the thickness of graphite negative electrode and positve LFP electrode are 110 to 150 um thick. This yields the most AH capacity per unit volume and weight but cell suffers from ion starvation above about 0.5CA cell current caused by the thick electrodes. This increases terminal voltage slump and internal cell heating accelerates above 0.5 CA cell current.

Most cyclindical cells are made with thinner electrodes design in 50 um to 100 um thickness. This means more layers are required for same AH rating as capacity is dependent on amount of graphite and LFP material. More layers mean more copper foil, aluminum foil, and electrolyte. This costs more, takes up volume, and adds weight. Extra metal foil benefits are lower contact resistance and better heat dissipation. Cylindrical cell with thin electrode allow high peak cell current with onset of electrode layer ion starvation at a much higher current. This also helps at cold temps where ion migration rate slows down.

Prismatic cells with thick electrode design.
+ Most capacity per unit volume and weight
+ lowest cost
- lower peak discharge current
- less ability to dissipate internal cell heating

Cylindrical cells with thin to moderate electrode design
+ higher peak current discharge rate
+ ability to dissipate internal heating
+ better cold temp performance
- AH per volume/weight
- higher cost

There is really no difference in damaging effects of, depth of discharge between thin or thick electrode designs. Both will grow metal dendrites if left for moderate time below 1.0 vdc and both will have severe electrolyte decomposition if discharged below about 0.1 vdc or charged above 4.3 vdc. I wanted to thank you for the detailed response. I wasn't aware of some of those differences.

I personally went with lifepo4 cells because I got a good deal at the time and the one thing you really don't have to worry about with cylindrical cells is dealing with any type of compression.

In my scenario, I figure in ten years I could be left with an 8s system that has one bad 280ah cell OR I could have five failed and twenty still working fine. One bad 280ah cell could screw up my entire system and a new one would perhaps take days to arrive and then it would be a different capacity and lifecycle than the other cells in series. The I could rearrange as needed with a bit of work.

I don't hear people mentioning these benefits all that much, and certainly it is easier to just wire up 8 big cells vs hundreds of cells.

It didn't hurt that battleborn and others use cylindrical cells and have decent warranties.

I just saw a short video from Battleborn stating they use cylindrical cells vs prismatic cells. The benefit being they can be fully discharged 100% without affecting life of their batteries. They say prismatic cells can advertise cycles at 80% discharge but in reality is closer to 900 cycles at 100% discharge. They say Battleborns with last - cycles at 100% discharge.

I am always a little skeptical of companies telling me why they’re better so I would like to know this groups thoughts…

I call BS on their claims. The format of the cell has nothing to do with the longevity.. well.. almost nothing.

Cylindrical cells do have one minor advantage, but its so minor as to be insignificant, and it only applies in certain applications.. because of the cylindrical shape, they are just ever so slightly better at dissipating heat.

Beyond that, cylindrical cells tend to blow up because of the way they can build and retain pressure, while pouch cells tend to flame out with less force.

These companies make all kinds of claims to boost sales.. i’m kind of reopening a fairly old thread. But recently I discovered an article talking about the advantages of cylindrical cell versus prismatic cells. I have particular interest in this subject since completely by chance I ended up with a set of four batteries that have cylindrical cells inside. They make up a 48 V battery that I use in my camper.

Cylindrical cells can be placed in any orientation with no adverse effects

Cylindrical cells can be charged at colder temperatures than prismatic cells.

Cylindrical cells have a higher c rate than prismatic cells.

Cylindrical cells have better cycle life at full depth of discharge than prismatic.

Cylindrical cells have more cycle life than prismatic cells

Cylindrical cells stay cooler than prismatic cells.

I’m wondering if any of these claims are true and to what extent. Is there any proof pro or con. yes the cylindrical ones have a higher internal resistance, fewer life cycles, the discharge in terms of C is not very different from that of the more performing prismatics and the charging temperature depends on the chemistry so it is the same. also cylindrical are often made by small companies that do not have quality control such as companies such as Caltl, Eve, rept, Calb etc.

yes the cylindrical ones have a higher internal resistance, fewer life cycles, the discharge in terms of C is not very different from that of the more performing prismatics and the charging temperature depends on the chemistry so it is the same. also cylindrical are often made by small companies that do not have quality control such as companies such as Caltl, Eve, rept, Calb etc.

I have been trying to find documentation for the expected life span compared with each other and so far I have not found where they have been tested against each other. Battleborn ( one of the best known lithium batteries built in the USA) uses cylindrical cells in there batteries with excellent results but the cells they use are probably better grade than the batteries I have and they do extensive testing and balancing before assembling the batteries. The internal resistance of the batteries I have can’t be very high as they charge at 40 amps until they have around 6 amp hours to go and then gradually taper back until full.

I have been trying to find documentation for the expected life span compared with each other and so far I have not found where they have been tested against each other. Battleborn ( one of the best known lithium batteries built in the USA) uses cylindrical cells in there batteries with excellent results but the cells they use are probably better grade than the batteries I have and they do extensive testing and balancing before assembling the batteries. The internal resistance of the batteries I have can’t be very high as they charge at 40 amps until they have around 6 amp hours to go and then gradually taper back until full.

the smaller batteries are as Ah the greater the internal resistance I know that this thread is old but I would hope that those who are inclined to troll me will consider how I got here before acting on your instincts.
After looking into the idea of building a pack of Samsung cells from this address.:
. I've decided that the discharge curve of prismatic cells is more advantageous for my purpose. If I had needed periods of extreme rates of discharge, I would have gone with cylindrical.

I've decided that the discharge curve of prismatic cells is more advantageous for my purpose.

this is related to the cell chemistry which is likely lifepo4 for the prismatic cells
the ones you linked are very unlikely to be but they don't make it obvious, probably LiCoO2

BU-205: Types of Lithium-ion

Become familiar with the many different types of lithium-ion batteries: Lithium Cobalt Oxide, Lithium Manganese Oxide, Lithium Iron Phosphate and more.

Are you considering using cylindrical lithium-ion batteries for your next project? If so, it’s important to understand the different sizes available and how they can be used to meet your specific requirements. In this comprehensive guide, we will walk you through everything you need to know about cylindrical lithium-ion battery sizes.

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From the popular to the smaller and larger , we’ll explore the most common sizes used in various applications . Whether you’re an engineer, designer, or hobbyist, this guide will equip you with the knowledge to make informed decisions when it comes to selecting the right battery size for your needs.

Not only will we discuss the physical size and capacity of each size battery, but we’ll also delve into their benefits, limitations, and compatibility with different devices. By the end of this guide, you will have a clear understanding of which size cylindrical lithium-ion battery is best for your specific application.

Cylindrical lithium-ion batteries come in a variety of sizes, and its number usually indicates its physical size. The first two digits are the diameter of the battery in millimeters, the last two digits are generally the height in millimeters, and the fifth digit indicates the cylindrical shape. For example, the cylindrical battery has a diameter of 18 mm and a height of 65 mm, with 0 indicating cylindrical shape. This complies with the IEC standard for cylindrical primary cells. Manufacturers can also use non-IEC names for their products.

1.

The battery is a lithium-ion battery with a diameter of 10mm and a height of 44mm. It usually has a small capacity of only a few hundred mAh. This type of battery is ideal for devices that require a compact power source and is mainly used in small electronic products such as micro flashlights, mini stereos, speakers, etc.

2.

The battery is a lithium-ion battery with a diameter of 14mm and a height of 50mm, similar in size to an AA battery. The nominal capacity is usually below mAh. It is widely used in various consumer electronic products, such as LED flashlights, wireless speakers, wireless keyboards, electric toys, digital cameras, etc.

3.

The battery is a lithium-ion battery with a diameter of 16mm and a height of 50mm. Capacity is usually slightly higher than .Commonly used in flashlights, headlights, laser lights, lighting fixtures, etc.

4.

The battery is perhaps the most popular cylindrical lithium-ion battery size. It has a diameter of 18 mm and a length of 65 mm. The nominal capacity is usually between ~mAh. It offers a balance between capacity and size. is widely used and is the first choice for many electronic devices. It is commonly used in applications such as laptops, flashlights, power tools, e-scooters and e-bikes.

5.

The is a lithium-ion battery with a diameter of 21 mm and a height of 70 mm. The nominal capacity of the battery is generally between and mAh. Widely used in solar street lights, LED lights, balance vehicles, electric bicycles, electric vehicles, etc.

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Additional reading:
What Challenges Do Users Face with AC Coupled Inverter Factories?

is larger and has higher capacity than , and its volume and energy density are higher than battery. Therefore, some products will use instead of batteries in their power supply design.

6.

If you need a larger cylindrical lithium-ion battery, the size may be the right choice. With a diameter of 26mm and a length of 65mm, it offers a higher capacity than the battery. This size is commonly used in high-power devices such as electric vehicles, solar energy storage systems, and power banks. It can also be used for larger high-power LED flashlights and some electronic cigarettes. The battery’s larger size allows for more energy storage, making it suitable for applications that require extended runtimes.

1. Diameter: The diameter of a cylindrical lithium-ion battery determines its physical size and compatibility with devices and battery holders. Common diameters include 18mm, 14mm, and 26mm for , , and cell sizes respectively.

2.Length: The length of a cylindrical lithium-ion battery also affects its physical size and compatibility. Longer batteries generally have higher capacities but may not be suitable for all devices. For example, the and cells are 65 mm long, while the cell is 50 mm long.

3.Capacity: Battery capacity is a measure of the amount of energy a battery can store. Usually measured in milliamp hours (mAh) or ampere hours (Ah). The capacity of cylindrical lithium-ion batteries varies depending on their size, with larger batteries generally having higher capacities. For example, batteries range in capacity from mAh to mAh, while batteries typically have a capacity around 800mAh.

4.Voltage: Voltage is another important parameter to consider when choosing a cylindrical lithium-ion battery. Most have a nominal voltage of 3.7 volts, but their voltage will vary depending on the charge level.

5.Discharge current: The discharge current is the maximum current that a battery can deliver continuously. It is usually measured in amperes (A) or milliamperes (mA). High-power applications require batteries with higher discharge currents, while low-power devices can work with lower discharge currents.

1.Application requirements: First understand the specific requirements of the application. Consider factors such as power consumption, voltage requirements, and physical space constraints. High-power applications such as electric vehicles may require larger batteries, while low-power devices can use smaller batteries.

2.Size and weight: Consider the physical size and weight limitations of the device. Smaller batteries (such as the ) may be suitable for compact devices, while larger batteries (such as the ) may be more appropriate for devices with ample space.

3.Energy Density: Energy density refers to the amount of energy stored in a battery per unit volume or weight. If you need a battery with a high energy density, you may opt for a larger size like the or . However, keep in mind that higher energy density often comes at a higher cost.

4.Cost: Consider your budget when selecting a cylindrical lithium-ion battery size. Larger batteries with higher capacities tend to be more expensive. Evaluate the cost-benefit ratio and choose a size that offers the best balance between price and performance.

5.Availability and Compatibility: Ensure that the battery size you choose is readily available and compatible with your device or application. Some battery sizes, such as the , have a wide range of options from various manufacturers, making them easily accessible.

With these factors in mind, you can narrow down your choices to a cylindrical lithium-ion battery that suits your specific needs.

Are you interested in learning more about Cylindrical Lithium-ion Cell? Contact us today to secure an expert consultation!